Community, Characters, and Cold Beer: Tales from a Detroit Neighborhood Bar - Donovan's Pub

Step through the intentionally squeaky door of Donovan's Pub, and you'll immediately understand what makes neighborhood bars the backbone of Detroit. Owner Shannon Lowell keeps that door noisy for a reason - when it creaks, everyone glances up to size newcomers within 30 seconds.

Located in what Shannon calls "the cracks between Corktown and Mexicantown," this neighborhood institution has weathered decades of Detroit's changing landscape. From its origins as Patton's Bar in the mid-60s to its rebirth after a fire, Donovan's embodies the resilience that defines the city. Shannon shares fascinating stories of his childhood in the bar, meeting characters like Marlene the numbers runner who kept folded cash visibly bulging from her tight jeans pockets - both as a display of status and a warning not to touch.

The walls themselves tell stories - from bullet holes courtesy of an angry patron who shot a Playboy centerfold on the wall to the permanent Halloween decorations that stayed put after removing one damaged the finish. Perhaps most treasured is the rescued Alvin's Detroit Bar clock, preserved from a legendary Cass Corridor venue and now sparking conversations about Detroit's rich musical history.

Donovan's has hosted everyone from Detroit Tigers players like Aurelio Lopez to famed crime novelist Elmore Leonard, who arrived with an entourage while researching a book. But beyond celebrity encounters, it's the sense of community that defines the place. In tougher times, the bar served as a neighborhood financial institution - cashing checks on Fridays and collecting money for funeral expenses when tragedy struck.

While trendy establishments come and go, Donovan's remains steadfast in its mission: creating a sustainable, affordable place where people can connect authentically. As Shannon puts it, "I always want to make a bar that I would want to go to and I could afford to go to." In an age of $20 appetizers and $50 drinks, there's something revolutionary about a place that prioritizes conversation over cocktail artistry and community over profit margins.

Come discover why places like Donovan's matter - where the squeaky door welcomes you, the stories captivate you, and the spirit of Detroit's resilient neighborhoods lives on in every cold beer served.

https://linktr.ee/ManCaveHappyHour

www.ManCaveHappyHour.com

Jamie Flanagan @DJJamieDetroit

Matt Fox @fox_beazlefox

Merch www.WearingFunny.com

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome to the Man Cave Happy Hour
• 4:25 Navigating Detroit's Notorious Exit
• 10:33 Donovan's Pub History and Community
• 21:56 Shannon's Childhood in the Bar
• 32:29 Neighborhood Characters and Numbers Runners
• 40:22 Surviving Gentrification and Change
• 49:25 The Alvin's Clock Story
• 55:42 Elmore Leonard and Local Legends

Transcript

Jamie: 0:02

I said hey, hey welcome to the man.

August: 0:05

Cave Happy Hour.

Shannon: 0:09

I said hey, hey, welcome to the man Cave Happy Hour.

Jamie: 0:16

We're gonna drink a fine whiskey and smoke a really fine cigar.

August: 0:21

It is time for Happy Hour, really fine cigar.

Jamie: 0:25

It is time for happy hour. It is the man cave Happy hour whiskey, scar, spirits, the stories that go along with it. I'm Jamie Flanagan, I'm August Gitschlag. I'm sharing a little.

August: 0:35

Hey, we have another voice here. Mr Mr Fox is off today. He's a busy keeping our financial institutions running smoothly on the financial world's afloat. Yes, keeping all that stuff, the banking world is, uh is better off with him in it right now. So, uh, yeah, sorry you're not here, matt, we have a third person. Usually does this with us, but he couldn't get out of work.

Shannon: 0:54

It wasn't on a lamborghini yacht, was he?

August: 0:56

no, it was not a lamborghini yacht sinking in miami now yeah, he's just keeping afloat.

Jamie: 1:00

Yes, he is keeping afloat, that is, but but yeah, so we are downtown Detroit. And we're not in the Right on the border of Corktown and southwest Detroit. Is that what you'd call?

August: 1:12

it we are. We get to take the anxiety exit to get here, oh my.

Shannon: 1:16

God yeah, the most notorious exit in Detroit.

Jamie: 1:19

You know you go right, you're in.

August: 1:20

Canada, buddy yes.

Jamie: 1:21

No turning back.

August: 1:23

No, turning back my Uber driver's, like I get so scared here I get so scared They'll be like stick to the left.

Jamie: 1:28

It'll be fine. Just go into duty free and say, hey, I'm an idiot. They're like okay come over there.

August: 1:34

I did it once. I had a gun in the car. I'm like, oh, that wasn't a bad good day for you, it was a five hours of my life, I'm so yeah, she had noticeable anxiety getting off on Exit 47C there, yeah.

Shannon: 1:45

Yeah, a couple people end up. When they end up making those mistakes, they end up in the bar and they're usually like it took me four hours. I made one mistake and I got to have a drink Because they went through my entire car, but it's happened several times. No matter how many markings they put, how many flags they put up or anything like that, people still make that mistake. It happens. And what? Once again, that whole intersection around the bridge built in 2008 is when all that stuff started and some engineer somewhere decided this was the smartest way to get people to and from Canada. But you still get that kind of confusion right there. Yeah, that was an interesting time when they built that thing.

Jamie: 2:31

Is it because it's the border of Southwest Detroit and Corktown?

August: 2:35

Or is it Corktown and Mexicantown?

Jamie: 2:38

So is it politically incorrect, is it culturally insensitive to say Mexicantown, mexican village?

Shannon: 2:43

I think it's always great that when white guys decide what you know where maps should be drawn, it's all right, we're just trying to describe where we are you know, it depends on you ask, of course, because it's like it used to be. Like you know, southwest side is anything down to dearborn yeah and it's, like you know, from the shadow of the old tombstone or the train station, however you want to look at it, or if you used to look at it.

Shannon: 3:05

you know, from Michigan Avenue on down from Corktown to Dearborn is Southwest side, where you choose to draw your definitive lines. The fine tuning of that radio station, that's up to you. You know, between the train station, the ambassador bridge is where we are right now and as I've grown up here, it's always been in the cracks. You've been stuck between the Irish and the Mexicans and you know, and it's just been.

Jamie: 3:29

You know, talk about the butt crack of.

Shannon: 3:30

Detroit and a lot of good things and I love this city.

Jamie: 3:33

No, people cannot. I cause people are like I can't wait to move, I can't wait to get out of here. I love this town. I'm like go get out of my city, you know grew up in amanda.

August: 3:42

Yeah, I mean, we were there until like 93 yeah, you know, I mean we're, you know?

Jamie: 3:47

um, yeah, I like bringing people to this specific bar, because they don't.

August: 3:52

They never knew it was here, right, you know, in right here in the shadows of michigan central right there, you know, I love that and people don't realize it, and then you walk, you're like oh, oh look where I am okay yeah, before the phones took off and everybody was calling to get directions to get over here, I would answer the phone and somebody would say, hey, where are you located?

Shannon: 4:10

How do you get there? And I'm like, if you've got to ask, don't come.

Jamie: 4:13

And that would be my answer. It's probably not going to end well for you.

Shannon: 4:16

No, it wasn't it wouldn't, and for those people trying to go, christopher Columbus on this bar.

August: 4:28

I'm like dude. I really don't need any discoveries today, Just if you, if you like the place, bring your friends back, show them where it is, because they most likely know how to behave this.

Shannon: 4:32

this place, has been in your family for how long? Uh long as I've been able to uh very long.

Jamie: 4:35

All right. So, Shannon, let's do that Right, Cause we were. We're at Donovan's pub, uh, on the, on the on the border of Corktown, and we're with the owner, Shannon Shannon, before we get into all the bar and everything.

August: 4:50

Tell me about your childhood.

Jamie: 4:51

Oh my Lean into the mic.

August: 4:53

I always love that response. I always wait for the response.

Shannon: 4:55

You know well, I'm sitting upright on a chair. Are you sure I shouldn't be laying down on a couch somewhere?

August: 5:00

to describe my childhood. It's fine.

Shannon: 5:02

As it pertains to this specific place.

Jamie: 5:06

Interpret it however you wish. The man Cave Happy Hour is an interpretive dance of time.

Shannon: 5:10

I vaguely remember the first time I came in here. It was called Patton's Bar.

Jamie: 5:14

All right.

Shannon: 5:15

Back in the day. I remember that I still have coats that say Patton's Bar when I had the pool league going on. But this place was owned by a crazy old guy who was on America's Most Wanted. Ultimately, his name was Ronnie, my stepdad and his second wife at the time. If I remember my history right, you know they bought the place from Ronnie. However, ronnie actually had four of their partners and a lot of riffraff going on. You know this is what mid-' mid 70s to about the early 80s. So you know there was a spec or a fleck paint T-tops, wide collars, big you know big big ties

Shannon: 5:57

big tie knots, lots of hairspray and, you know, cocaine, craziness guns, third precinct, which I think was. I think it was called the third precinct then, not the second precinct. If anybody remembers any cattle prodding incidents then you'll understand what the name changes were all about between the second and the third precinct. But that's how long it's been since I've been coming in here, which was back when it was patents, when it was Patton's, and there used to be stuff going on in here which you know we'd come down on a Saturday to go to the newly open Mexican village cafe down the street.

Jamie: 6:31

That new joint.

Shannon: 6:33

It was so very new that you, you, you know, like everything, you had factions of people who would. That's the place you go for that food. That's the place you go for that. And you know, I remember just being a little kissy and a little. You know that, yeah. And you know, I remember just being a little kidsy and a little. Uh, you know little cockroaches running around on the table and we just shush them away and go for the food. You know, but okay, back to the childhood and coming in here, so it was uh, how did your family come in to come into well?

Shannon: 6:59

my uh, stepdad, uh, his second wife, uh passed away and got together with my mom, basically, and my mom started working here probably in the early mid-80s, okay, and that's when you know. Soups were here on Saturdays and Sundays. We had caldels on Saturdays, menudo on Sundays, and once again, coming in here and don't ask me why, I was you know my mom would bring me to a bar on the southwest side.

August: 7:24

But you know, I had friends.

Shannon: 7:26

I'm talking like at the age of nine, but on soup day I remember sitting here playing with the pool table, like all kids, do you know? Slamming balls around with their hands, not actually playing but then waiting for soup those days. And then there was this little lady rest her soul. Her name was Marlene. She had a red hair, burgundy hair dyed burgundy and then a white stripe in the hair and she was the numbers runner. She was one of the first people I met in here I love it and she was the one who was always wearing um, tight, tight fitting jeans, and in the pockets of her tight fitting, jeansitting jeans were the folded money. I mean, we're talking.

August: 8:07

So you could see the rectangles in her pants.

Shannon: 8:09

Oh dude, little lumps of like a full-on man wallet in every pocket, and she did that for several reasons. She told me later One. So, people, yes, I have money in my pockets and you don't want to touch me or these pockets, because I also have, you know several people watching me.

Shannon: 8:26

So she was the one who would start telling me, trying to teach me how to play pool, and basically even she got fed up with me one day and said you know what? Go to college, you don't need to be playing pool. You know, go get an education, because you're not doing anything on this table.

August: 8:44

Well, it's quite the contrast, because where did you end up? In college, yeah, yeah, at a military academy. So that's the exact opposite of being the child in the bar running loose with the numbers running late.

Shannon: 8:55

Right, that's a good story. The English degree I mean. I could bartend just about anywhere in town, that's if I could remember how to make any of these drinks nowadays. So, your mom started working here about anywhere in town. That's if I can remember how to make any of these drinks nowadays.

Jamie: 9:03

So your mom started working here, yeah, and then what led that to the family?

Shannon: 9:08

Well then, it was my mom and stepdad. They were here I was working with. I love the numbers runner.

Jamie: 9:13

But oh yeah, I love that.

Shannon: 9:16

Oh, I wouldn't want to tell you because it was Marlene Freddy Martinez, victor Vicente Olivares. These were the guys who went to college late in life because they got busted. They had to close the whole 18th Street down with DEA and FBI guys. Is he going?

August: 9:31

to lean in more.

Shannon: 9:31

Let me know if you have to tell me I'll do that. I get animated. They closed on the street, all of them. They used to work here too. Towards the end Marlene had to wear a tether towards the end, and it's like Marlene had to wear a tether towards the end. Oh boy Freddie, he went away. You know we had to send him a $5 bill so he could buy tomatoes in college College.

August: 9:54

And then Vicente.

Shannon: 9:55

his college career ended up in. I think he ended up in, not Ohio, I think it was in Indiana he was gone for about a year, and then he popped back on the street.

August: 10:06

So just enough time for an associate's.

Shannon: 10:07

Oh yeah, basically, but those were those people. But yeah, my mom and stepdad, they anchored down here and let's see, I got through high school. You know I had my 21st birthday in this joint and the bar down the street, because all the bar owners knew each other.

August: 10:26

Whether they liked each other or not, didn't?

Shannon: 10:27

matter. They all knew each other. Which was the bar down the street at the time? That was giovanna's, and uh, uh, that was, uh, oh god, joanna and her daughter arena. Uh, very fantastic, individual people, but, like you know, the mother hen running that bar, we had a mother. My mom was the mother hen down here and you knowens don't like sharing space or having the same opinion, but those were those times I started Ford Fast, from my childhood up until like hireable age after I started to pass my 21st birthday. I guess it was in 93, 94 is when I got here.

Jamie: 11:04

Were you just working here? When did the mantle get passed to you and then the name changed because it was in 93, 94 is when I got here. Were you just working here? When did the mantle get passed to you?

August: 11:08

And then the name changed, because it was Patton's. Oh no, Patton's, Donovan's.

Shannon: 11:12

my stepdad and his second wife changed it to Donovan's. Her middle name was Donovan.

August: 11:17

Oh, there we go.

Shannon: 11:19

So that's it. And because we're once again in the, what did I say in the cracks between Corktown and Mexicantown, or whatever however you want to label it, you know it was always one of those things. We were right next to the third precinct. This was the safest bar. It could have an odd name and everybody knew what the name was because that was on the building. But it never really mattered what the name was on this building, whether it was Patton's or Donovan's, or you know, giovanna's was Gio's or Joanna's, it was Joanna's. This was Mingo's. Everybody named it Copitas, for little cups, because everyone was drinking shots in here every chance they got. Everybody on the street had their own nickname that they called the place, and this one had several of them.

August: 12:00

How long do you have the like? This was a bar since 1921?.

Shannon: 12:05

Or do you?

August: 12:06

have an old deed on that that tells you when this was put together.

Shannon: 12:09

Vaguely. I do the search. I think it's the 60th. From the bricks, the cinder blocks around the building pretty much tell you that it happened in the mid-60s Okay, mid to late 60s, because of the way the cinder blocks are Later than I expected. Yeah, it was when it was um, when it was uh, when it was patents. However, this room was arranged a lot differently. The uh pool table was down at that and the jukebox was down at this end and uh, yeah, the riffraff and the trouble always ended up down there, there are two bullet holes in the walls there, there, what?

Shannon: 12:42

Yeah, there was a naked just imagine a Playboy centerfold along that wall about eight feet. It was one of those decoupage. What is that stuff? You put plastic over things when you put quarters on a bar and you put laminated. That was sitting right there. And one night somebody got all ticked off in here back when it was patents and uh shot her right in each one. In each uh, tick and uh.

Shannon: 13:15

That was that uh that'd be an interesting night yeah, this place burned down in between patents and, uh, and donovans too and that's what facilitated? Facilitated my stepdad and his second wife for getting it. Where did the name?

Jamie: 13:28

Donovan's come from. It was her middle name. Oh, okay, it was her middle name. It was hers.

Shannon: 13:32

Is that the girl that they shot?

August: 13:34

over there in the corner.

Shannon: 13:35

Huh, is that the?

August: 13:35

pinup girl. No, no, that one actually came.

Shannon: 13:38

No, that was when I was getting here. That was from an Easttown delivery guy. He brought that and this place used to open up at 8 o'clock in the morning.

Jamie: 13:54

It was lacquered. Lacquered, that's what the word is. Holy crap. I've been struggling with that for the last two minutes. I got lacquered on Saturday.

Shannon: 14:01

Just remember shellacking in a bar.

Jamie: 14:03

Yes, shellack, all right.

Shannon: 14:06

But yeah, there's deliveries in here. Everything in here was done. We had to be ready by 8 because we had to catch the people getting off shift next door at the precinct or the post office down the street. They're no longer at it. I think they still do some stuff down there. But, we would catch those shifts and people would be wandering through. You know, Southwest General was still rather new at the time, so we'd catch a couple of those people In the future DCFC Stadium.

August: 14:34

Yeah, that's a joint.

Shannon: 14:35

And good luck to those boys. I'm glad they are.

August: 14:38

They got a hospital teardown still, so we'll see when they get to it.

Shannon: 14:41

And I'm really surprised. You know I looked over there at how much actual footprint they have. I was just wondering where exactly the train tracks were going to. You know how they were going to accommodate the train tracks and the design of this thing, but they used to do that at Keyword Stadium.

August: 14:57

At Keyword. They got a train that goes through and it's a big part of it. Everyone loves it. You know Train goes right over there, yeah.

Shannon: 15:04

Right behind the goal, dude. They're down at the end of the block, so I'm like dude. I hope they start their marches here Well they darn well, could I mean?

August: 15:12

I don't know where they're going to start. To be honest with you, they might start at the McShane's Nemo's, where all the bars are together, you know. But you're going to do just fine here. You're going to do great.

Jamie: 15:21

So this has been a mainstay of the area because I've been coming down to Mexicatown. Xochimilco is my favorite one since probably 85.

August: 15:34

I always liked Armando's because it's full of all the 1984 Tiger celebration pictures in there. After they won the World Series they all went to.

Jamie: 15:40

Armando's and they let them take pictures and put them on the walls. He loves El Zocalo more than that.

Shannon: 15:47

The stories are there. I got a little thumbprint picture down there at the end of the bar of Aurelio Lopez.

August: 15:56

Senior Smoke.

Shannon: 15:58

I think I got the right one. He was the one after the Tigers games back when they were down on Michigan Trumbull. There the Mexican guys would come in here and hang out with the boys and sign autographs. The last time Aurelio Bobcap, the guy who sold cars down the street to everybody, he was in here with his wife. Aurelio, Is that right, Aurelio?

August: 16:24

Aurelio Lopez.

Shannon: 16:25

The one who got killed there was Juan.

August: 16:27

Berenguer Aurelio Lopez, right, right, right. The one who got killed there was Juan Berenguer. Aurelio Lopez and Willie Hernandez were the big three.

Shannon: 16:32

Right, but I hope I have the right one right, the one that got pinned down there. He was coming out of El Rancho. Some woman epileptic lost her license still driving. The car ended up crashing into him and pinning him into the telephone pole. They were in here that night and they all went down to eat at El Rancho. It was better food back then too. It's got a little. Don't want to talk about it, but they all went down there. But those guys would come in here.

Jamie: 17:03

Yeah, they would come in here Mexican-Hispanic Tigers would come down here.

August: 17:06

Yeah, they would come in here. Tigers would come in here. Mexican Hispanic that was really Lopez. He was killed in an auto accident the day after his 44th birthday. After their games and hanging out, If you go down next to El Rancho.

Shannon: 17:13

you'll see the telephone pole right there and on the pole you'll see a little commemorative to him.

Jamie: 17:17

I've never noticed that, and that is the pole that she pinned him in.

Shannon: 17:22

Oh, bob Capp's wife. She got some knee damage. She was in the hospital for a minute and she came out just fine eventually. But it took her a long time to rehab through it and it was just a tragic loss for sure to the neighborhood. But that was how tight things were. Papa Grande would get his haircut down there at Lupe's, a barber down the street. I mean, everybody would just kind of commingle down here without worrying about whether or not they're getting deported or turned right and end up in el salvador.

August: 17:50

You know, because it was also before camera phone pictures and people weren't you know, chasing you around like that you know but again, this has been a mainstay, yeah, of the area. True, um, I remember it from so I used to come down here and see boxing matches back when I was in college, out of college with my buddies. You had that big. Was it the Rodriguez show?

Shannon: 18:15

Right when Sugar man came out and you had that show we were emerging from, once again the Gateway Project, really knocked us out All this construction right.

August: 18:27

It's a major piece of infrastructure, man Right around the block from you.

Shannon: 18:30

The thing was we were connected to that part of town, to the Hispanic part of town, and they put a 15-sign detour between that side of the 75 Berner Bridge, right there and this bar. You had to go all the way back out to Michigan Avenue and do 15 signs to get over here. All my customers evaporated in one instant.

Jamie: 18:53

When was that it was?

Shannon: 18:54

2008. And then I think we're on 10 is when Rodriguez because I knew him from Cascador days and we got to talking and he said dude. He said dude, I'm gonna come, I'm gonna come over there and we're gonna put some air into your bar.

Jamie: 19:11

What's that mean, dude?

Shannon: 19:12

That's what that was his way he expressed it he was like dude, you know it's about air. You gotta just you know you, gotta you, gotta you gotta breathe some air into it.

Shannon: 19:22

It's going to get sliced back. I'll Mueller boys were working here, brother team bartenders they were here. Everyone was really happy about it. The hipster kids were all getting all googly eyed over the whole dang idea and it was pretty damn good. I was Rodriguez. I always knew him as Rodriguez and I was like, yeah, come on and play. And he's playing and just the people lined up.

August: 19:42

Oh, the place was jammed yeah.

Shannon: 19:44

Back in the Dally days you'd just be sitting on a hump of the grass somewhere by the alley and we'd just be getting high.

August: 19:49

We should include the fact that Shannon used to run Dally in the alley. Now he's the co-chair of the Hampshire McLabour Day Festival. Full disclosure. I deal with this guy all the time for years, which is why I said it's about time we did something from down at Donovan's Pub, a spot that we haven't been to. Hey guys, I got a Mexican joke for you. You ready?

Jamie: 20:05

Oh boy, let's be as respectful as we can.

August: 20:09

Why was the Mexican guy taking Xanax to deal with Hispanic attacks?

Jamie: 20:15

Oh my god, it's, a good clean Mexican joke.

Shannon: 20:18

That's a good joke. That's kind it's a dad joke. Now, would you tell that same joke if this bar was full?

August: 20:25

Absolutely. It's not insulting, it's just silly Play on words. It's a good joke. It's a repeatable joke.

Shannon: 20:31

Now there's a point there too, though. When I started working here, I was basically one of maybe two including customers and my mother, I think, maybe one of maybe five or six white people that could hang out here and not be looked at crooked. Maybe five or six white people that can hang out in here and not be, like, looked at crooked. You know there's of all the, all the things that make noise in here. I mean conversations, bitching, you know, arguing, doing whatever the thing that I that makes a lot of noise that door, the main entrance door, the one that you come through. I can go and close it right now, and you could hear it squeak from where we're sitting, and the thing is I never oil that door, because when that door makes a noise, everybody's eyes comes up from whatever they're looking at and they glance at the door and they want to see who's coming in, because you have to size somebody up within 30 seconds or else you're in. You know if you don't do that.

August: 21:20

My parents have had a squeaky gate in their backyard forever and one day I went to oil it and my dad's like what the hell are you doing? I'm oiling it, he goes. How am I going to know if anyone's?

Jamie: 21:30

coming in yeah.

Shannon: 21:31

Thank you. And you know, it was just weird because everybody knew everybody coming in this place. Even if you didn't know them, you know the type of person they were. And that would be it. I mean, right at that door there was also a pay phone.

Shannon: 21:49

I mean, so you know, the somebody would come in with the to use the pay phone and if they had the shoelaces in your in their hand, they'd be asking to borrow 50 cents and you just give them the 50 cents as they're lacing up their boots and getting back into things you know, usually around the morning hour when they kick everyone out of the cells next door. But yeah, no, this place has been around. Is you know bars back then too? The bar I grew up in, this one maybe still has the history of it, but you know, cash everyone's checks on Friday, lend people money for caskets. I mean, you know the bars were.

Shannon: 22:19

No, when somebody would have a funeral or somebody would get hurt. Somebody abruptly died. You know you pass the coffee. Can around you go and talk to the people with the money, can I?

Jamie: 22:34

borrow some and I got to fly the body back to Mexico. You know bars were for that. That was the purpose. So it's it's interesting. The last two bars we were in community was a big part of the conversation. Oh, yeah, yeah. And then because you have the commercial bars right coming into a community, oh yeah, yeah. And then because you have the commercial bars right coming into a community, and then they want to, they do their darndest to try to reach out and become part of community, Now Donovan's was part of the community from the get go.

Jamie: 22:59

So you guys started here, the community was, was here, and so you had that naturally. And I think that's a pretty cool thing, yeah, that it just cause you you've been here so, so long. So what are some of the things about Donovan's today that that we should know about?

Shannon: 23:17

Oh, well, man, that's a big, wide open question, yeah, so it's what it.

August: 23:24

You're not open at eight in the morning anymore. No, no, no, no, no, no no, no, no.

Shannon: 23:27

But the things that are important are still the same. You know clean, safe. You know no drugs, no BS.

Jamie: 23:35

You know, I mean probably about 6 years ago, to like 10 years ago, corktown was having some trouble.

August: 23:46

You know, I mean it's clearly unrecognizable now from what it was 10 years ago?

Shannon: 23:50

Yeah, and everybody looks at those things too, though.

Jamie: 23:54

It's getting safer, much safer.

Shannon: 23:57

You know the dark period, literally the dark period. During that it took me five years, I think, to get streetlights back on.

Jamie: 24:06

Yeah.

Shannon: 24:06

So, it literally was dark out, it was seriously dark out yeah, I mean, and there were nights here that I wasn't willing to stay here. I mean I got the hootie-bee-jeebies so I just say I'm not going to die for 70 bucks and I just plows up and go home. Now that's why I've got all the lights come by. They check out their old haunts like anybody. But you know your neighborhood bar, the one that you nicknamed because of small cups or whatever. That was your spot and you know your stomping ground and we still have a lot of connective tissue to those memories for a lot of people here at this bar.

Shannon: 24:44

The new bars that are made nowadays God bless their cherished pursuit of the dollar bill, but I'm kind of not the best business guy in the world but I'm not really here to make a million dollars up to somebody who just wants to hang out and enjoy a drink before they got to go home and get yelled at by the wife and kids. The better place to be is here for the most part, until it isn't. You know, everyone kind of figures it out, but you know what kind of I've always wanted to make. I've always been part of a bar that I want to be part of. I always want to make a bar that I would want to go to and I could afford to go to.

Jamie: 25:18

Resurgence in this area, though right In the last six years to now, is is insane.

Shannon: 25:29

When you say resurgence, though no, when you say resurgence, I've been coming. I've never not come down here.

August: 25:31

But is it clean and shiny? Resurgence is changing demographics, changing clientele. Changing demographics Changing, I guess resurgence is one way to put it. How would you put it, Shannon, since you're in the middle of it Traffic flow.

Jamie: 25:44

Is it changing traffic flow? I would say.

Shannon: 25:47

Definitely a change of the customer base. And what the neighborhood makeup is changing? Right, and you start throwing around gentrification and all these other words that people love doing yeah.

Shannon: 26:01

It's whoever's here right now. Now, while we have that sentiment, just grab a hold of the idea here, though, is that what this place has always been, and what it continues to be, is a sustainable place to hang out. These places, these really neat places that you see popping up everywhere, you know, for a couple or two people to go in, a couple to go in appetizer, which is, like you know, two eggs cut in half for $20. $50 drinks. You're spending $120, with tip, for just half an hour's worth of time.

August: 26:35

It's unsustainable. I was talking to Tom T, my buddy Tom T, yesterday about that. You just can't. You can go out twice a month, Otherwise you're dropping $100. If you're with your day, you're dropping $220 a night. I would rather100. If you're with your day.

Shannon: 26:46

you're dropping $220 a night. Oh yeah, and I would rather have like, if you could have like, say, you have three beers every day, that's going to keep my lights on If you have one drink every day, one shaken drink, which I hate when I see these things, you know. I just want to see somebody having a good conversation, sincere conversation shotting a beer and do that.

Shannon: 27:09

Everyone's name was the Cheers of Hamtramck over there, next to another Cheers and Bakers and the other Cheers the C-League and you were a great steward of that generation of people trying to get along in that town, and even those people have either moved on, grown up, gotten past the whole bar world, but it's just that batch of people that ran through whiskey or runs through this. Hopefully they got those memories that carry them along with the other things that happened, yeah.

August: 27:37

and then every couple months they all pop. They come back, Just poke their head in on the way back from a Tiger game or something. I remember why I stopped coming here. I've been in here forever.

Shannon: 27:49

Thanks for keeping the lights on.

August: 27:51

Thanks for contributing. It ain't like it used to be.

Shannon: 27:53

It ain't nothing like it used to be buddy.

August: 27:56

I agree with you I agree with you. Shannon, I don't mind it, but as long as they spend money and they don't get pretentious they don't want me to put more than three ingredients in a drink then I don't really give a shit. You know, yeah, yeah, I'm not going to. We always kept one martini glass in the bar. That was it. I've got two, you have two Okay, I count four.

Shannon: 28:16

It's the reflection. Oh, it's the reflection, okay, yeah, when one person orders a Cosmo, they all want them right.

August: 28:20

Whenever I hear that shaker go, I turn around.

Jamie: 28:30

I'm like what the hell is going on down there, all right, but there's some really neat knickknacks and artifacts and things in here. There's an Alvin's Detroit Bar clock over the corner. How do you have the Alvin's clock?

Shannon: 28:45

What is that? That's been on a journey All that.

Jamie: 28:49

That's been on a journey All right.

Shannon: 28:53

All right, let's see. Alvin's bar was down in the Cass corridor, across from the nurse building.

August: 29:03

Well, it's now next to the Carhartt building.

Shannon: 29:06

That Carhartt store used that. Yeah, he's got a carhartt store.

August: 29:08

That carhartt store used to be a parking garage right, right, when I used to work the door at alvin's for cornwell. There you go back in the day, yeah, yeah yeah, so alvin's is going out.

Shannon: 29:18

It's run by a woman by the name bernadette. Um, she had it, and if you ever walked through there, you, you, you'd slice through what used to be like. It looked like a delicatessen when you walk in, but when you snuck on back there it got to be a really dark, really great sounding room for all music, everything music, and so a lot of bands, a lot of musicians, cut their chops here. Iggy was there. I mean, there was a bunch of stuff going on. My dad used to bring wood.

August: 29:42

And my dad would go there in the 70s when he was in school at Wayne State. He would bring wood for the fire pit. It had an open burn fire pit in the middle right when he walked in the back, right when he walked in the front door.

Shannon: 29:54

Yeah, that went on really well in the 80s, by the way, Well then they admitted a gas fire pit.

August: 29:56

It was a gas fire pit. This is a funny story, you're going to love this. They admitted a gas fire pit, fire pit out. They're like, no, we're not going to have a fire pit in the goddamn bar, it's crazy. And so there's these little one-inch holes in the floor where the gas pipes came through. So we're having a meeting there one day and Richard Bernstein's there Now, our Supreme Court Justice, rick Bernstein, and he's got his cane and he's standing around and he goes hey, chris, ugh, like yeah, what's up? He goes what do you mean? A cane's gone. Well, I dropped it. I don't know where it went. It was just in my hand and then it was gone. He literally had tapped it on the hole in the floor and it went into the basement. Chris was like, oh my God. He ran downstairs and got his cane from downstairs and it went through the one-inch hole that the old gas pipe came through for the fire pit.

Jamie: 30:38

Oh, good Lord.

Shannon: 30:40

That's great. So, yes, alvin's was going strong. I think I had a crush on. There was a girl named Sabrina Sanders that used to work there and I had a crush on her so I'd go in there. I'd see the clock, whatever. That's where it came and, by the way, the bar was so dark and that thing is a dark clock, dark purple, the light was muted.

Shannon: 31:00

Yeah, that was the lightest thing in that room, so whatever, so that was there. And so whatever, so that was there. And then when Alvin's was going under, basically they had an auction and at that auction everybody who owned all the other places in town wanted to help out, earn a debt and get her out of the debt that the place had accumulated.

August: 31:22

So everybody came with big fat bills to basically buy that Overbid and help her out.

Shannon: 31:23

Yeah, buy a baseball for $500 kind of thing. So it was a guy by the name of Chuck Roy who owned Cass Cafe. He still does, but he went to the auction and he bought a few items. People, other bar, other owners bought a lot of stuff but he got the Alvin's clock and he had it up in the Cass Cafe right above. I guess it's the, if you remember, like the coffee station at the end of the bar.

Shannon: 31:48

He had it on the wall there and, uh, he, they have him tell the story. He's just like he had it there and it was great. It worked for a while. Then the clock broke and then the thing was he never had a sign on the cast cafe. So people just knew it as the casket or chuck's place, kind of like this place, uh, copitas or mingos or shannon's or whatever. People just knew it as the Cass Cafe or Chuck's place, kind of like this place, copita's or Mingo's or Shannon's or whatever. And people knew it as something else. But they never had a sign. So when they would come in and see the Alvin's neon lit up, they would go, hey, is this Alvin's? And you'd be like, no, it's not. So you got tired of that.

Shannon: 32:21

The clock finally broke and he took it down and uh, uh, he apparently put it in a garage and that's where it was. Well, uh, maybe a couple years ago I was like chuck was helping me out with something. I go, chuck, you still got that clock. He goes. Yeah, I go sell it to me. And he goes well, you don't want that, it's broken.

August: 32:40

I'm like yeah, I do, it'll be right.

Shannon: 32:42

Twice a day, matter of fact and I told the story kind of like I'm telling y'all now here. It's like dude, I want to hang it up in a bar and let people talk about it, not finger screw their phone. I mean, I want people to sit and look at something and have a conversation. You know, hey, I remember when I saw eggy there. Hey, I remember when the sound guy from labor day festival uh, bruce was there, somebody was there. I mean, those are conversations that you can's, not something you can mean to each other. That annoys me. The phones do, by the way. I miss the days when you had one pay phone and when somebody would look for you. You had to put your hey, are you here? Somebody's calling for you. You know, none of this instant access.

August: 33:25

When the pay phone rings in a bar, everyone's like, oh shit, who's looking for who? Hey, sammy, it's your lady again. Are you here or not? It's going to cost you five bucks.

Shannon: 33:34

So the Alvin's clock. I asked to buy it, I got it and then I'm looking at it. There's a guy actually in Antramic I'm going to space his name right now is a neon guy. The neon was broken a little bit, put a lot of time into it, picks the clock, put it up here and it's done exactly what I wanted to do.

Jamie: 33:52

You've even asked about it.

Shannon: 33:52

I love it, love it, love it, love it. There's, uh, one of the guys who used to work for bernadette. He wandered through here one day. He actually almost fell on the floor in shock. He goes I haven't seen that thing in forever. Carefully, he says, if you ever want to sell that, I'm like no, it's priceless to me.

Jamie: 34:09

The stories are priceless.

Shannon: 34:10

The memories are priceless and it's not some kitschified kit that shows up in a semi-tractor trailer and you're thinking God, it used to be Friday in your place. It actually has some substantial tissue that connects it to the history that other people have enjoyed.

August: 34:29

So what else you got going on, Shannon? What's coming up here? Anything? So it's Cinco de Mayo, right?

Jamie: 34:33

So there was a parade yesterday.

Shannon: 34:35

Yesterday must have been the real shit show. Huh, that was you know.

August: 34:40

So I've been here on parade day when it's just all these fields are just full of cars and trucks, yeah, yeah, and every year.

Shannon: 34:46

it's really weird. They've been throwing it for what? 30, 60 years or something, and every year it's like they're throwing it for the first time. And this year they changed it up again. They started at Patton, went down to Clark, then went about face and went back to Patton for the festival.

Jamie: 35:04

Okay, everybody start backing up. Right, start backing up.

Shannon: 35:06

There are two events that go on. You've got the parade and then the festival, so those two things thrown on the same day. I was just talking to somebody about this and they're considering maybe not throwing the festival apart, just doing the parade and then separating off the festival for a warmer climate during the middle of the summer. Yeah, but the numbers from yesterday I mean if you read the newspapers and kept up on whatever just asked around, you know the weather sucked.

August: 35:34

It was a crappy weather day.

Shannon: 35:35

The.

August: 35:35

Strawberry Festival in Hamtramck suffered too. I got rained on.

Shannon: 35:38

But at least they go downstairs.

August: 35:40

They go downstairs. They go in the tent right.

Jamie: 35:42

Right, right, right. There was the Irish Festival at the St Patrick's Center yesterday too. Really.

Shannon: 35:47

Yeah, you know, if it's a building that's warm, you're doing good. But that parade did okay. But from the numbers I saw, I asked the person who threw it and she said you know, 6,000 has pushed it.

August: 36:02

So how did you do it? Because you're just kind of separated from that, you always get the overflow.

Shannon: 36:08

Because they didn't bring it all the way down here, because Manny Maroon and the bridge didn't do anything behind here and they didn't have a reason to hopscotch down to here or leapfrog down here. People really didn't come down here this year Now, years past, there's been bumper to bumper.

August: 36:26

There's been, you know, a quarter mile line off the exit here, oh everyone parked on the, on the grass, all on the freeway it was like you know depending on how it was.

Shannon: 36:34

This was not that year, and not only did the weather suck, but then you know, the political weather sucked. You know, and you can read whatever you want into that, and and everyone can just figure that out. But you had a choice of either standing on the side and being plucked out or which I'm going to say that one right you being hunted down, pulled out and then not spurned at a stake but thrown into an El Salvadorian one-way prison. Those are your choices nowadays. Right, you get screwed up at the border. You end up at El Salvador.

August: 37:07

Not the good. Yeah, I mean I giggle, but shit If you don't, you're like God damn. This is actually happening in our world right now.

Shannon: 37:14

Right, and that is a different topic for some other. Well, they're not going to go to El.

August: 37:18

Salvador, they're going to start going to Alcatraz, alcatraz.

Shannon: 37:20

Yeah, he's going to reopen Alcatraz. That was announced today.

August: 37:22

That'll be the new one. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Shannon: 37:24

A place with no running water is a really good idea, so, but down here it was pretty now. It's been so busy in years previous. Other bars is closed. Oh, I mean, last year I think there was a bar down the street who in front of the club and the cops shut them down, shut the whole thing down. That became like a thing for a minute, but that was one of those things that went into the decision this year to about face and send it back the other direction, and I think it didn't work any better or worse for the event itself, but it was definitely easier to contain uh for uh, the powers that be. And you know, ultimately safety is the most important part of an event like that and, from what I heard, only one incident uh, may have had one incident happened had nothing to do with it. It was on michigan and the boulevard.

August: 38:19

There somebody did something stupid yeah, you get that many people together, it's always bound to be a knucklehead.

Shannon: 38:24

Yeah, we used to keep a tally every year. You know how many people got messed around with. You know like five people in Clark Park, how many times a gun goes off, I mean. But that's kind of you know one of those. What do you call it? You're walking without a net around here.

August: 38:38

If you fall, you really got to get away from that kind of stuff.

Shannon: 38:54

So if we were to leave here and go and get a margarita and tacos, where do you say we should go? Oh, I'd park here and walk across that $8 million walk bridge and go over to Los Galanes. That's a family owned place still still and you like those now what just turned into taqueria ray over there and that was used to be owned by a guy named uh hugo victor that white building right right, he was an interesting fella. Yeah, uh, he looked like uh peter peter laurie oh uh, yeah, he really did.

August: 39:31

Well, you gotta remember too.

Shannon: 39:32

when he opened his place up, it was him and, uh, armando. Uh, it was the guy saying not no relation to armando's down the street, but he got a fight over parking with the guy across the street from him. It's like Zocalo's and Zojimilko's got in a fight and it was all about parking. Well then the other guy beat the snot out of Victor to the point where it bit his eyeballs out of his head. Oh jeez, the guy who did the beating. He went to jail for a minute. College yeah.

August: 39:59

I'm sorry.

Shannon: 40:00

He went to finish his school yes, he went to finish the school. Yes.

Shannon: 40:03

And that kind of you know, kind of calmed down over a while. But Victor ended up picking up lots and putting a lot of effort into building his little empire over there and the weird thing happened like so often does that when the patriarch or the matriarch, whoever's in charge of the family when they finally give up the ghost, the children and the people who come after really don't want to have anything to do with things. And that's kind of what happened with Victor's Place, that it was offered to his family the children, from what I understand and they weren't really into it. They'd seen what happened to their dad.

August: 40:40

They didn't want that life.

Shannon: 40:41

They just said, that's a solid idea. Let's do it. So it's become something else, it's been repurposed to do something else and I think those are good things because it still has, once again, that connective tissue that people, when they remember things and they talk about the people who own them, that those are true, actual, authentic memories of the place, not something that's been cardboard plastered to a wall somewhere.

August: 41:05

I'm a junkie for sushis. I've been there a bazillion times.

Jamie: 41:11

If I ever had to leave the state for some reason, I would have to get food airlifted to me every couple of months.

August: 41:16

I prefer the patios and sitting outside. It's different.

Jamie: 41:22

It's just slightly different. There's a different taste than other typical Mexican restaurants. It's just slightly different. There's a different taste than other typical Mexican restaurants. There's just something special about it for me.

August: 41:31

I think last time I was there I got put in the holding cell upstairs and I was like I've got to wait up here for this little bar, I've got to wait to get downstairs.

Jamie: 41:37

They serve drinks up there. I'm always in, that's why I stopped going to. There'll be a wait. We're like yay, let's go upstairs.

August: 41:45

What's the horse racing bar over there?

Shannon: 41:47

Oh, my, oh uh. Crap why am I drawing a blank?

August: 41:51

The one uh Green Dot.

Shannon: 41:53

Green Dot. We went to sit down and have drinks. I thought you were talking about Joey Stables down river Back in the old days.

August: 41:59

They wouldn't let Kat and I sit at the bar and have a drink. So you can only sit at the bar for eating food. What are we talking about? He goes. You want drinks? Go in the back. You got to go in the back there. I'm like well, I'm going to go stand in your little holding pen back there A little tiki.

Shannon: 42:10

Yeah, I don't like those guys.

August: 42:11

And then they're like playing bags back there it's a bunch of frat boys order food if you're sitting at the bar. I'm like, just because you said that I'm not going to, I would have ordered cheese sticks or something dumb, just so I could sit there. But I didn't do it, and so we and then we went to go back and it's the same thing. They put us in the back room and said now you gotta wait back here. I'm like the entire bar is open. Why can't I sit down, have a?

Jamie: 42:39

cocktail, I'll spend money like, no like well, that's a dumb rule.

August: 42:43

Bye, there's the kind of goofy stuff they have on the menu. You've got to buy $20 worth Giraffes slider and stuff like that. Those have got something weird, which is cool. I might get a takeout one day, but I'm going to go in there again.

Shannon: 42:56

I'm guessing it's better. But when they first opened I'm doing my thing down here it was a Patty's Day parade, so Paddy's Day is just a hunking mess around here. Everyone's on foot. They're being stupid, but what are they going to do?

August: 43:10

You're not that far. You're close enough to get Cinco de Mayo and St Patrick's Day parades. You're right in the middle, you know we're the day walker Like.

Shannon: 43:18

I said we're in the cracks in between two party cultures, I guess. But I remember the new batch of kids that were at Green Dot at the time. They were in here and there was this little snot that was wearing some sort of Batman and Robin utility belt. That was his cocktail waitress I don't know his little outfit, and he was in here giving my old-school bartender, which back then we called him barmaid giving her, still her.

August: 43:44

We all hear barmaid every once in a while. Good.

Shannon: 43:45

I'm glad we can still say that.

August: 43:47

Yeah, I mean, they're not all mixologists. There still are some dive bars out there, you know.

Shannon: 43:51

And, by the way, a barmaid will yell at you, curse at you and kick you out Absolutely. And the bartender will have to call someone.

August: 43:57

We'll let you stay.

Shannon: 44:00

But okay, so the firemaid is getting ticked off because she's had a long day, it's separate. And this little kid with the utility belt, he is acting a fool. She's freaking out. I just happened to come back from. I had to go home, get changed, came back, I come back in here and she's freaking out, she's shaking, she's so angry and I'm like what happened? What's going on? You know off your meds. She goes no, that kid is pissing me the hell off. And I'm like well, I'll take care of him. Went over to him and sure enough, he's nine sheets to the wind. I'm like what's your name? I don't know, martin or something like that. I'll never remember. And I go what are you doing? And he's like well, I wanted this, that and the other. And she goes no, he's being a jerk out and go. I go where do you work? And he goes you told me green dot. I'm like why don't you take your ass back to green dot and start treating those people working there like you're treating this one right here?

August: 44:48

get out of here, don't ever come back.

Shannon: 44:50

I did that and I swear to god you can hear a pin drop in this bar and all the way down this bar, which we got 16 chairs okay, that one not included 15 people, as that kid's walking out because it's like that's not how you treat people.

August: 45:04

My, my girlfriend right now is in some some island community in south carolina and doing country clubs and all this shit with her friends. She's like this place just makes me appreciate our relationship and how much I enjoy dive bars with you. She's like I just don't like this bougie shit. There's a moment for those. You know. You can go have a cocktail, you know, at hard luck or or Sugar House once, and it's fine. But this is my seat. We're sitting in my kind of bar, right here Respect is.

Shannon: 45:31

I don't know if I should say it's not on the menu, but it's like when you walk into a place that's a good dive bar and I'm not really laying claim to that moniker here, but it's just a respectful place and it just happens to be vintage in its presentation.

Jamie: 45:44

So Donovan's Pub, do you consider yourself an Irish bar?

August: 45:49

Great question, it's got a definitively Irish name to be in a pub. You've got a crest.

Jamie: 45:57

We'll get to the crest too. That was going to be my second question. So do you consider yourself an Irish?

Shannon: 46:02

pub. I'm going to go, no.

August: 46:06

I'm seeing a giant shamrock on your shirts. Dude, it's a community pop.

Shannon: 46:10

It's because, like I said, when you start throwing labels and names on stuff, it gets weird. You put the label on that shirt.

August: 46:15

I know, I know it's the logo that we got.

Shannon: 46:18

And it's between the crest, the family crest.

August: 46:22

And I have the family crest hoodie.

Shannon: 46:23

We modified that crest instead of a sword. We've had a pool cue in there for our pool league.

August: 46:27

Oh, there you go.

Shannon: 46:29

We could afford to do that with time and money, but that whole thing was rigged. We could talk about that story Okay, we're different but no, the Irish bar. You know, when I first showed up here it was a swing and D Mexican bar, and that's the way I grew up.

August: 46:44

It was a neighborhood bar, it's a neighborhood bar and that's where it was.

Shannon: 46:50

You had to. You know you stood out, behaved yourself and you can come back Now. Whether you want to be an Irish person and have that same attitude, sure it's an Irish bar. You want to be a Mexican person and have that same attitude? That's a Mexican bar. If you want to be an American, it's an American. It's whatever bar it needs to be, as long as you're not a schmuck, as long as you don't screw things up.

Jamie: 47:13

I'm working the cliche and I got a Guinness, but that's my go-to. I got a.

August: 47:18

Modelo just because it's single, single to my own. I don't drink a lot of beer anymore. I'm here, I'm like I'll have a beer.

Jamie: 47:26

I always do this. It's like 99% of the time. I called up a couple of shots. He had Powers up there, which is a pretty fine Irish whiskey.

August: 47:37

You don't see that in bars, Even in Irish bars. You don't see Powers. You don't always see it.

Jamie: 47:41

I was like let's do a pair of the powers and kind of toast Donovan's and thank you for being a host with us today.

Shannon: 47:48

I appreciate this exposure. I appreciate your conversation.

Jamie: 47:53

Oh, thank you. Well, let's keep rolling.

August: 47:56

Did you drink yours already? I did about a half hour ago.

Jamie: 47:59

Oh, I've been waiting to talk about it before I drink it.

Shannon: 48:01

I drive people to drink.

August: 48:03

Yeah, well, you have.

Shannon: 48:04

Yeah, well, that's that, but yeah, Irish bar now, Matt. Location. Geography is something, State of mind is something else.

Jamie: 48:16

So you got these, you got on the coolers, I noticed and it was kind of like the Halloween decor thing, but there's like it was kind of like the Halloween decor, there's like little spooky kind of faces creeping out of them.

Shannon: 48:30

And you pointed out the decoration and the way the place looks. I got another power Nancy in the back, in the other one, yeah, so my mom was, uh, she was the incredible woman who still is. Um, but for decorations, for holidays, by the way, single to mile, I didn't decorate, but you used to be dripping from the ceiling. Uh, halloween, christmas, all the holidays, all. I mean every square inch of this place. And back then, one of the things I did before I was able to drink but still hung out in here was hang the garland around the room. Okay, and it had to change for every holiday and every holiday was decorated for and we're talking 10, 12, 15, 20 of those plastic containers for all the decorations. You know, 500 bunnies for Easter and all this stuff 500 bunnies.

Shannon: 49:26

You know, one of the things that happened was this place was never short on decorations back in the day. Well, I whittled them down considerably.

Jamie: 49:33

I've spent over 500 on bunnies before, but that was different.

Shannon: 49:35

Well.

Jamie: 49:37

Never mind Okie dokie.

Shannon: 49:39

But so it was one Halloween and this was back when I mentioned the previous group, like my mom's generation of people hanging out here was, you know, the Vicente Ovalles, the Freddie Martinez, the numbers runners and stuff. You know, those were the people hanging out here. Vince was actually cleaning the bar up.

August: 49:56

It sounds like characters in an Elmore Leonard novel.

Shannon: 50:00

Elmore Leonard was sitting right in the middle of the bar. One night We'll have an Elmore Leonard story as well.

August: 50:05

Okay.

Shannon: 50:06

God bless him and rest him. But so Vince was decorating the bar one day for Halloween. We were all helping out. My mom got these decals and decided to put them on the doors. Well, after Halloween was over, vicente the cleaning guy he came to get these stickers off and they tried to pull one off and it took the finish off. My mom looked at him and yelled at him and said what are you doing? He tried to tap dance through it and basically she said oh well, that might have been my fault. They got Polish women she's not going to admit that she did so a Polish woman owning an Irish bar in a Mexican neighborhood.

Jamie: 50:42

Okay, that makes sense to me, love it.

Shannon: 50:45

That's America. That's America. Yeah, basically it was screwing up the finish so we just reapplied them and left them there forever. And it's one of those big things that it draws people's attention and they all ask what you just asked. Hey, what's the story behind those spirits on the doors? But what's behind spirit number one, what you find behind it? It works pretty well. Those are pretty fun. Some decorations still don't come down.

August: 51:14

There's all kinds of interesting stuff here. There's a conversation piece around every corner.

Jamie: 51:19

Give me the Elmore Leonard story. This is going to be great because I get to bring up.

Shannon: 51:25

One of my closest friend in the universe is a comrade Maziar. She would be here with me today. I've met that guy. Yeah, I've seen him out on occasion. He's one in three states, but the same one of them, the same one.

Shannon: 51:39

But okay. So one night I was, the Mueller boys were working. They did a. Nobody's really out and about on these streets but out pulls this black, I think, one black Escalade, two other dark vehicles. They pulled up into the parking lot. All of a sudden some filmographer female type walks in Badges, come in, but they're like private badge, I mean they're police but they're on private detail. With Elmore Leonard, he comes in. I got my buddy Conrad down there. You know, hey, Elmore's here.

August: 52:15

That corner is kind of Conrad's corner.

Jamie: 52:17

Kind of like asshole Elliot with the jar. It's Conrad's corner here.

Shannon: 52:22

When he's not. Yeah, yeah, that works. That's the owner's spot, because you get to watch the whole room. The owner's spot. We're sitting down there In walks Omar Leonard with his entourage. He sits down After the smoking ban went in. I allegedly kept going a little longer than I should have.

August: 52:41

I like how some other places have done that. That also puts a time stamp on this. You're just after the smoking ban, yet you're letting them get away with it a little bit.

Shannon: 52:52

This guy walks in with the atraz, Cameron goes. That's Elmer Levin. Yeah, so who's he?

August: 53:00

He's Elmer Levin. That's what my buddy Cameron does.

Shannon: 53:04

He's one of my most favorite authors in the universe I'm like well, let's go, go say hi.

August: 53:07

So this is like 2010, 2011.

Shannon: 53:09

Right, Okay, yeah, and that's where we were emerging. That's Rodriguez's plan. This is happening. Things are starting to come back. You get a pulse and almost get. You know, get a pulse to rejuvenate the patient, to get it out Now it's a lot patient to get it out, Just to get life back into this place. So he goes it's Elmer and I'm like, well, go say hi. And he goes I can't. I'm like why the hell not?

August: 53:31

At this time Conrad was a librarian. He has a different job now, but he was a librarian. Elmer Leonard's, like aww. Most of those movies were all dropping right.

Jamie: 53:41

Out of sight, it dropped.

August: 53:42

Chili.

Shannon: 53:43

Palmer did this or that.

August: 53:44

Right, yeah that was stuff that all dropped.

Shannon: 53:46

So he was really nervous. It was his idol and I'm like well, dude, he's two, six chairs over there. This is the only opportunity. He's sitting right there. You're going to feel like a jerk if you don't go, say hi or anything.

August: 54:01

Not a lot of authors have entourages. Huh, not a lot of authors have entourages.

Shannon: 54:05

Oh, he was old, yeah, because I find out. Yeah, why? Because when he was in, what are you here for? He goes I want a glass of cheap wine and I want to smoke the cigar and I'm like, all right. So he set him up with the cheap wine. Of course, that was easy, easy. And then we got him up. We used to call him candy dishes back then we gave him a candy dish. So he's sitting in the middle of the bar, he's got his glasses on, he's looking around. I walked over to him first and I said hey, how are you doing? I heard your, uh, your elmore letter. And he goes uh, yeah, I go. Hey, uh, what's going on? What are you up to tonight? He goes yeah, we're driving around. I'm like, what you doing? He goes well, I might or I might not be researching a book. I'm like, what are you doing? He goes, well, I might or I might not be researching a book.

August: 54:44

I'm like well, good for you, that's pretty sweet.

Shannon: 54:46

He started talking a little bit more and that's why he was going around in all these little dye bars in the Ponce to check it out for whatever he was writing. And I figured that out. And then Conrad, because I guess he saw me over there because he's talking to somebody. How about researchers?

Shannon: 55:07

sitting here staring at the mirror when a camera comes over, they start talking a little bit. They say I love your books. Good for you. It hung out for a little minute there. It was pretty cool. You just fit right in. So many people do, it was rather easy. I wonder what book got the Donovans.

August: 55:29

They probably called it, uh, you know, Sonovans or something like that. Like I just changed the name by a letter and then, you know, I went into the so-and-so, went into this bar and so we're sitting at uh, yeah.

Shannon: 55:40

But that was that was. That was a fun one. And then who else? I mean, if you want to splash up against feigning people, I mean not only the baseball players, rest them. But you know, leo White lived down the street in that geodesic dome. We used to call it the Leo-desic dome, the geodesic dome we used to call it the murder dome. That was the place. Who was this? This was Leo White Jack's uncle.

August: 56:04

Oh, Jack White's uncle Okay.

Shannon: 56:06

He used to live down here, right White striped guy, as he's known, right Well, there's still connective tissue between him and his family and this bar. I mean, I think I got to remember some of the names of the people and I can't do it right now, but I do remember that dome. Got to remember some of the names of the people and I can't do it right now, but I do remember that dome and I think that story was still out there in history because when leo sold it, you know that that kit came from. It was like a 25 000 uh styrofoam kit from florida. He was assembling down the street like a crazy kook.

Shannon: 56:35

So that's what made him endeared him to the neighborhood because he's a psycho and, uh, we're watching him put this thing together and it's a pretty sweet spot. He gets it all together, does fine. But then him and his wife you know he they break up. So you can't sell the place at the time because nobody's buying anything around this neighborhood at the time. They can't sell nothing, you know, more pricey than dirt around here, um, and and so, uh, they end up renting it. They rent it to these sheriffs or something like lake orient or something like that they're running an after hours club out of the joint. They've got off-duty sheriffs. Uh, at the time allegedly that that sounds.

August: 57:14

Uh, you know yeah, right 1991 yeah right.

Shannon: 57:18

Well it was. The casinos were open. They needed some place to go. After the casino closed they would come down to here. The sheriffs were watching the door, blah, blah, blah, and then all of a sudden somebody shows up from the hometown, Lake Orion or somewhere off to the first knew that money was going through the joint, so they show up here to shake the place down and steal and knock it off. They didn't get through the sheriff's door. Shotgun play got involved. Somebody got killed right there. That made the news for a minute, Shut the place down. Then that's when the story popped that hey, I didn't know all that was happening.

August: 57:52

My place is on the up and up. I'm a few blocks away. I'm shocked.

Shannon: 57:58

There's gambling happening here.

August: 57:59

Here's your winnings, sir.

Shannon: 58:00

Thank you. My favorite lines from my favorite movie.

August: 58:05

Everyone knows Chess Le Blank is my favorite movie, so I use that line a lot.

Shannon: 58:08

Those guys were pretty fun to have down there. I think it's vacant. I forget who picked it up. After that the neighborhood kind of crept in there, stole all the copper. They poured a floor of copper pipe in there so they could keep the heat. That was the heat and the scrappers took it all. They just beat the hell out of it. What do they call that?

August: 58:29

Entrepreneurial investments, whatever these kids are calling it now. I remember coming down here for Motor City Soul Stomp. It started here, dan Austin's Soul Stomp, that northern soul stuff. Then it expanded off to those big places like Marble Bar where they needed a room. But yeah, it was quite the jam down in here back in the day.

Shannon: 58:48

Yeah, and you know it was wow Growing up. It's like. I don't know how everyone does it nowadays through their phone, but I always enjoyed going to a place that made you, that put you on a little edge and you had to be a little scared when you walk into a place. That would keep you in line, that would keep you going. You've got to have a little fear when you walk into some place.

August: 59:11

You grew up different than me. I did not want a little fear when I walked into a place. It took me a while to get into that dark place, but that's what made it memorable.

Jamie: 59:23

That's what gave you know St Andrew's Hall was a dangerous place. Oh yeah. Getting into St Andrew's.

August: 59:28

Oh yeah, it was like you know, going to the shelter, going to Todd's, you didn't tell your parents.

Jamie: 59:32

Going to Leland.

Shannon: 59:33

Right. Todd's on one night. Todd's on one night, thursday, thursday, thursday, yeah, you went the go on those because I grew up right there, I was like right I was like two streets over, but uh, yeah, so it was uh, it was just a little bit uh.

Jamie: 59:53

You know, you parked your car. It was always a beater uh windows, you know, it didn't matter I got my battery stolen uh sunday morning when I was at church. I thought I went to a little french church when the hell did you go to church? Saint joachim on the french road that really runs like along the airport, because they had a 1230 mass so I could sleep in.

Shannon: 1:00:09

Wow, I remember when they were stealing batteries. It'd be like eight pieces there's always just a little edgy.

Jamie: 1:00:17

I appreciate it. I don't run from it, I'm like come here.

August: 1:00:20

I've got to say hi to a couple of people who's chatting.

Jamie: 1:00:23

Mary Meehan, jerry Stolzenfeld, jeremy Stolzenfeld, stolzy Stolzenfeld, my sister Cecile Cadd, David Deason Foxy, beth Ricci, oh Beth.

August: 1:00:34

How are you Beth? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jamie: 1:00:37

Art Young, art Stasio Young and Eric. Eric, we're going to be golfing with Eric. Oh, sheltis, sheltis at Cave Radio.

August: 1:00:46

On Saturday we'll be golfing with Eric.

Jamie: 1:00:49

Cross-pollinating with another podcast company or radio internet, Whatever you want to call it, I don't know whatever this noise that we do on the line, this stuff we do. But we're going golfing with the Cave Radio broadcasting folks on. Saturday On Saturday and that's the thing. It's like this, it's like community, it's like not being afraid to help each other, even though they're competitors, but we're friendly, it's fun.

August: 1:01:17

We're trying to have fun. This has been a great hour with Shannon Lowell. It's been an hour buddy, just telling stories, getting to know more about the bones of this place that I've been coming to for years and do love to come to, and now I'm so glad that I'm now within an $11 Uber ride because I was up when I was out and more in the St Louis Shores, I wasn't down here quite often.

August: 1:01:39

Now I'm back in the Hamtramck, you know, a couple blocks from you, and it's real close and easy to get here.

Shannon: 1:01:45

We can probably kick open a couple of shifts for you, pal.

August: 1:01:47

I know You've been trying to do that for a while, haven't you? We'll see.

Shannon: 1:01:51

No, I appreciate this and you know I don't like lumbering around memory lane too often.

Jamie: 1:01:57

but you guys have made this pretty easy. It's all right. Well, thanks for being a wonderful host and having some fine whiskey behind the bar. Even though it's an Irish, not an Irish pub, I'm getting my Irish whiskey on it.

Shannon: 1:02:08

You know it's all good bars. It is what it needs to be right now for anybody who comes in.

August: 1:02:14

And it ain't going anywhere anytime soon, all right.

Jamie: 1:02:17

Like, subscribe, leave a comment, do all those podcast things and all the podcast places.

August: 1:02:22

That's a Jimmy Flanagan over there.

Jamie: 1:02:23

That is August, Gitchlag, and we will see you all again very soon.

August: 1:02:28

Thanks, Shannon.

Jamie: 1:02:28

Thank you. Thank you, Joe Cheers. And Nancy thank you my privilege, Our barmaid Nancy. She was fantastic.